Flashcards in Gorgias Deck (22)
It is worse to do wrong than suffer wrong
P1: The worse of all conditions is immorality
P2: Having wrong ‘done to us’, is not acting immorally
C: Therefore it is worse to do wrong, than to suffer wrong.
Rhetoric is a mercenary act, suitable only for criminals
P1: Rhetoric is a tool used to assist one to avoid punishment.
P2: Avoiding punishment allows one to remain in a state of immorality, the worst type of condition for a person.
C: Therefore rhetoric is a mercenary art, suitable only for criminals.
Responding to the populace prevents you from stating real truths
P1: Truth is consistent, and eternal, and the art of philosophy can help us achieve it.
P2: The whims of the population are fickle, and based on desires, rather than eternal truths.
C: Responding to the populace, therefore, prevents you from stating real truths.
Any agreement on a point reached by Socrates and Callicles conclusively demonstrates the truth of that point
P1: Knowledge, affection and candour are the three qualities required in an interlocutor for the elenchus to reach a point of truth.
P2: Callicles possesses these qualities.
C: Any agreement on a point reached by Socrates and Callicles conclusively demonstrates the truth of that point.
The general population are naturally superior to a single individual
P1: Through sheer numbers, the masses are stronger than any individual.
P2: ‘stronger’ and ‘superior’ and ‘better’ are synonyms.
C: The general population (masses) are naturally superior to a single individual.
Nsture and convention are not opposed
P1: The masses, because of their numbers, are the naturally stronger.
P2: The majority have the power to legislate (construct conventions that govern society).
P3: Dominant social convention dictates that equal distribution of good is right and that doing wrong is more contemptible than suffering wrong.
P4: Since the ‘naturally strong’ (the masses) are also those who legislate, then ‘natural justice’ and ‘conventional justice’ are the same thing.
C: Nature and convention are not opposed. Both endorse the fact that it is more contemptible to commit wrong than to suffer it.
A life of self-restraint is happier than a life of self-indulgence
P1: A person who exercised self-restraint and temperance is like a jar with no leaks, that stays full of milk and honey.
P2: As this person can control their desires, they are not constantly distressed by having to sate them.
C: A life of self-restraint is happier than a life of self-indulgence.
If some pleasures are bad then the pleasant and the good are not the same
P1: Not all pleasures are good. Some are bad (such as a life spent itching or scratching or the life of a male prostitute).
C: If some pleasures are bad (or contain an element of distress) then the pleasant and the good are not the same.
The pleasant and the good are not the same 1
P1: Good and bad are opposites
P2: Opposites cannot exists at the same time (i.e. illness, health, strength, weakness).
P3: Pleasure and pain/distress can coexist (drinking and thirsty).
P4: Pleasure and pain are thus not opposites; pleasure by definition contains (rather than alternates with) distress.
The pleasant and the good are not the same.
The pleasant and the good are not the same 2
P1: The possession of good qualities is what makes person good.
P2: Therefore possessing pleasure should make one a good person.
P3: Heroes and cowards experience pleasure on the battlefield when the enemy withdraws.
P4: Cowards experience more pleasure than heroes.
P5: The good experience pleasure and the bad distress.
P6: So therefore a coward is a better person than the heroes. As this cannot be……
C: The good is not the same as pleasure.
The good is independent of pleasant activity
P1: All activity aims at the good.
P2: The good is not a means towards anything else, but the end of every action.
P3: Pleasant activity is not good in itself, but aims at the good.
The pleasant and the good is not the same, as the good is independent of pleasant activity.
Rhetoric is a knack and philosophy requires expertise
P1: Knacks aim at immediate gratification.
P2: Branches of expertise consider the reason for its action and the nature of its object, they require reason.
P3: Rhetoric is solely for the purpose of flattery; to gratify the masses.
P4: Philosophy aims at the good and requires skill and expertise.
Rhetoric is a knack and philosophy requires expertise.
A self-disciplined mind is a good mins, and a self-disciplined person is a paradigm of goodness. A philosopher's life is the good life.
P1: In all good things: ship, house, mind, body, state, there is an underlying order and organisation of components: harmony.
P2: For the mind or the soul, order and organisation occurs through law and convention- the mind is imbued with justice and temperance.
P3: Indulgence pollutes a good mind, like feeding a sick man bad food.
P4: Self-restraint stops the mind becoming diseased in the quest to satiate desire.
C: A self disciplined mind is a good mind, and a self disciplined person is a paradigm of goodness. It is the philosopher who lives this life, not the rhetorician.
It is worse to do wrong than suffer wrong EVAL
Isn't worse a subjective notion?
He is asking us to accept that a loss of integrity is worse than victimhood, because we are responsible for one and not the other. But most people may believe physical pain is worse, on account of human nature believeing pain is bad.
Forces us to judge ourselves on our virtues, not circumstances.
Rhetoric is a mercenary act, suitable only for criminals EVAL
Politicians use euphemistic language to cover attrocities.
But is he being quite one-dimensional? The art of persuasion can be used to serve moral ends.
Training in rhetoric means that people are less persuaded by it, less likely to be led into falsehoods.
Can be used to defend the innocent.
Responding to the populace prevents you from stating real truths EVAL
What are the real truths? a relativist position would argue that truth exists, but it is relative. In this sense, responding to the changes in time and culture could enable one to state real truths.
True: if we accept the popularity of a truth based on consensus we are committing the fallacy of the majority.
The general population are naturally superior to a single individual EVAL
The majority always has more power. The only thing that can negate that power is regulations designed to protect minorities. But the majority is "naturally powerful".
Nature and convention are not opposed EVAL
The majority is the natually powerful, so whatever they dictate can be regarded as their natural desires.
Some natural behaviours are restricted by convention.
We choose which desires or wants are more preferable.
Social convention dictates that doing wrong is contemptible, but not necessarily that it is more contemptible than suffering wrong.
A life of self-restrain is happier than a life of self indulgence EVAL
Is this not subjective?
If some pleasures are bad then the pleasant and the good are not the same EVAL
Is this in immediate gratification? Studying hard is painful. but the pleasure of satisfaction outweighs this. Being self-restrictive is hard, but there is goodness in this.
The pleasant and the good are not the same 1 EVAL
Strength and weakness can coexist. We can be strong in the legs but weak in the arms. Opposites can co exist.